Ian Landsman is Starting From Scratch, July 16, 2008:
Building an App in 30 Days … Is Stupid
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All the rage the last year or so seems to be trying to build an application as fast as possible. The common length of time seems to be 30 days, but it sometimes goes down as low as 7 or even 5. While this may be an interesting idea as a publicity stunt for an established company or for a Google engineer using their 20% time it’s about the worst idea a would be MicroISV can take up. In fact, I can’t think of a better way to ensure failure in a software venture (a venture you hope to replace your full time job with).
I assume this has come about from the new mantra of release early and often. Those ideas may be good ones, but for a one man show putting an arbitrary limit on the development of your product is suicide.
Let’s address some of the obvious problems first. Software worth building is likely to take you more than 30 days! If it was that easy it’s more than likely already been done or will be copied in moments. A more pressing issue is that it trivializes the rest of your business, which as you know is 95% of having a successful business. So the developer kills themselves for a month to get out a product. Now what. No groundwork has been done to make the product a success. You have a product and have done no marketing, have no plan for support, and no back office tools for management of your ecommerce and application delivery. In short you have a product with no business.
Sure, it’s possible this 30 day app will be the one in a million that’s so spectacular that all those things are optional. Personally I prefer to work towards success rather than hope it finds me.
My biggest problem with the spread of this idea is that it leads the MicroISV down the wrong path. The path of the quick buck. But there’s no successful business down there, there’s no quitting your day job down that path. So when the 30 days are through and many of the most important features have been cut for time the developer is stuck at the end with a half an application and so much to do.
30 day apps are just the dork version of a grapefruit juice diet or buying foreclosed real estate with no money down. My advice to those tempted by it are to put that month to work on marketing, product idea research, business reading/research or just enjoying the summer 
Discussion
This is what Billy did with Vista. I think it worked out pretty well for him.
I usually agree with you. But I don't think it's stupid. Some people like the "Quick buck" idea better. They can't handle working on something for longer than that before getting bored.
Doing an app in 30 days is 12 apps a year. I'm sure something will stick.
Created by JB on 07.16.2008 10:56 pm
Oh come on, it's not silly. Not all applications need to be large and hideously complex. If you look at Poker Copilot, it is a tiny program that solves a real problem for some segment of the world's population.
It took the author slightly longer than 30 days, but no one expects you to have it polished by then.
And to go along with the other person's theme, if your idea really requires 1 year to implement, what happens if it totally fails?
Created by Sohail on 07.17.2008 2:06 am
Sohail, the point is doing your homework enough not to waste time on bad ideas. A sound project may not be spectacularly succesfull but hardly fails.
Created by Sevenoaks on 07.17.2008 6:12 am
JB anyone trying to start a serious software company who's doing 12 apps a year is insane.
That's where you're wrong Sohail, nobody who happens to find you knows you're trying to do some silly game of building an app in X days. They just want a solution to a problem. They're not there for you, they have their own needs and could care less if it took you 30 days or 3000.
It doesn't have to take a year, but all these 30 day projects I read about seem entirely focused on the code. There's no marketing other than a blog about the 30 day process usually and that's it.
Created by Ian on 07.17.2008 7:46 am
I tried this before the craze came around this summer... the one positive about the idea is that it gives you a fixed, tight goal, and motivates some people to actually put "code to paper". When you just have an idea, and no deadline for it, it's easy to keep putting it off or not finishing it. And longer deadlines like a year give the same problem.
So yeah, if you plan to launch your app as-is in 30 days, its probably not going to be great, but 30 days is a great motivational tool.
Created by Phil on 07.17.2008 8:01 am
Clearly you're wrong Ian 
So let's look at why.
>I assume this has come about from the new mantra of release early and often.
Not for me. There is so much happening in my life that it got to the point where it felt like I could go 5 years without releasing a product. I chose to impose an extremely tight deadline (34 days IIRC) to completely focus me, and let my family know that the insane number of hours I was putting in was very temporary, and would end on a specific date.
It is working for me. I have 14 days remaining, and I already have a product that is already proving of use to a few people who are using it (in private alpha testing). Now, I already knew what I was going to develop, I'd already investigated the market, already knew how to implement it. So maybe I cheated a little.
It turned "yea I'm gonna release my own product one day" to "I'm gonna release my own product on the 1st of August".
I agree that if you are developing applications scattershot, with fire and forget mini apps, then I don't think this approach will prove fruitful for the vast majority of people. But I'm working on getting 1.0 of my app out, that's all. I do intend to iterate ad nauseum from there.
Created by Tim Haughton on 07.17.2008 9:04 am
I agree that someone who expects to have a complete business after 30 days is fooling themself. That doesn't mean that the concept is stupid though, it just means that (as with pretty much everything else in life and especially business) you need to have an understanding of the probable outcomes before you begin.
The most obvious influence for the 30 day sprint that I can think of is nanowrimo, which encourages authors to write 50,000 words through the course of November.
The goal is not to have a completed novel at the end, the goal is to break past the procrastination thoughts like: "I'm just some guy, I can't write a novel!" or the "Sure I could write a novel but where do I find the time?" or your basic "I'll do it tomorrow".
At the end of November participants who have completed the challenge have several things: maybe a novel, maybe a significantly stronger understanding of what they were trying to do, maybe a fast failure, maybe just the fact that they realized that they can achieve a goal they've set for themself. Even participants who don't finish the novel have a much better understanding of what they're trying to do and why they've failed (or how they succeeded in unexpected ways, in some cases).
30 days is also a reasonably common milestone for creating new habits (or breaking old ones) in behavioural psychology as well. It's sort of like the "I will work for five minutes" procrastination breaker - the biggest obstacle many times is getting started.
Created by Rob Drimmie on 07.17.2008 12:43 pm
@Phil, I would contend that putting code down is the easiest part of the process and the one that most developers jump to first before giving any other thought to anything. As such the 30 limit only gives them further excuses to "jump in" and ignore the other 95%
@Tim, I would say you have cheated. If you've spent 6 months planning and working towards the product and then are going to try and spring through the actual code that's not as bad. Though I still think the artificial constraint doesn't make much sense. If doing it in 6 weeks would produce a substantially better product for v1 then why not do it?
Also, I think you're already falling into a bit of a trap. You know you're heavily compromising for this 30 day limit, yet you're presenting it to family, etc as a one time sprint to get it out. Once it's out you're going to have more work (and less fun work) than the sprint. So it seems that there's not much of a plan for what happens after the 30 days which is my point (though I wish you good luck!).
@Rob, while your example is interesting it's not really what I'm talking about. If you're doing a 30 day app to learn how to code or as an experience then go for it. My comments are addressed primarily at folks who are truly intending to start a software business from this project.
Thanks for the great comments so far all!
Created by Ian on 07.17.2008 12:55 pm
I have to agree with Ian here on almost all his points. What happens after the 30 days? You don't just stop and do nothing and the orders start coming in. My experience has actually showed me that you get busier!
For example support starts to come in, which you didn't have before. You now also have to market your product. You have to get involved with PR. You have to get the word out that you exist. After all, if you have something but no one knows about it, what good is it. And all this needs to be done at the same time as you're building up your second version.
But it doesn't end there. Now you also have to deal with accounting, money going in and out. Bug fixes, critical to minor. The list goes on. It really does get busier after the release, and never stops. So it's better to pace yourself, it's not a spring but a marathon.
I've written about this several times. Some examples include (and it's not just businesses, blogging, going to the gym, they all have the same issue):
http://www.followsteph.com/2008/03/31/why-are-there-so-many-dead-blogs/
http://www.followsteph.com/2006/09/08/ideas-are-a-dime-a-dozen/
http://www.followsteph.com/2008/06/26/the-secret-to-success-can-be-summed-up-in-one-word-perseverance/
All I'm saying is don't think that when you're done coding it will get easier, it will actually get harder. The more prepared you are for this the better things will be for you 
Created by Stephane Grenier on 07.17.2008 2:40 pm
@Ian - I understand what you're saying, but 4 or 6 weeks doesn't make any odds. If I thought that 6 weeks was absolutely necessary, then I would commit to that instead.
I know this - 1 day is too short. 1 year is too long. It's good software project management to implement features in an order such that your RoI is as high as it can be at that point in the project, whether by choosing features that are quick to implement or of high value. If you accept this, then releasing early and often makes sense.
To be honest, in our game, when considering a 1.0 release, I can't think of a single reason to shoot for anything else other than the smallest saleable product.
Created by Tim Haughton on 07.17.2008 2:50 pm
@Steph I of course agree entirely.
@Tim, I tend to find it extremely unlikely that 30 days is sufficient to do just about anything. Again, you might get enough code done, but that's only a tiny percentage of having a business. Perhaps my problem is how the 30 day setup is portrayed. If the goal is simply to throw code together in 30 days then that's fine I guess, but it's hardly a business and I think such limited time (especially if you're also working a day job) just sets you up for failure or less success than would be possible with proper planning.
I think taking a year and doing it right is better than doing it in a month and hoping the other stuff works itself out. My main thinking here is you're giving a tremendous output of energy right now and if you fail you're likely to be discouraged for some time. Better to be mentally prepared up front that it's a long haul than hope a quick sprint will get you where you want to go.
Created by Ian on 07.17.2008 3:03 pm
I think 30 days is plenty of time to do plenty of things Nobody expects that the 30 days is the end of the work, it's really the beginning of making a *product* but it can be plenty of time to create a *program*. It depends on what the program needs to do - customers want a solution and as long as your product provides enough of a solution for the money you are asking then it doesn't matter if it took 3 days, 30 days or 3 years.
When creating bespoke software solutions 30 days is a *big* job (for me anyway) and would be extremely expensive for the customer. Programs taking 1-2 weeks are more the norm for me. I admit this is vastly different to creating a *product* but the coding element is similar. I think thats what the 30 Day thing was about - the coding.
Besides, it was a fun exercise and well worth doing
Created by Steve Cholerton on 07.17.2008 7:49 pm
Amen Ian. I think this got popular with the hobbyists like that guy that makes the Bingo card software. More power to them if they like to *play* "business man", but meanwhile, the rest of us can be making real money selling products that meet real needs.
I mean that's great if they like to make a little extra beer money for now and then, but for the extra effort of some planning, it sure is nice to be able to raise a family, buy a house, cars, and a boat with the proceeds from your own business.
Created by Quit the day job on 07.18.2008 12:21 am
Sure Steve, if you just want a fun coding exercise then 30 days is fine. I don't have a problem with that. But I think that's the point. 30 days of coding is not a business. As Quit said with a little planning you have a chance at something much greater so why not shoot for that and put the 30 days towards something real, presuming you want something more. If you really just want to do it for fun or to learn a new language or something then that's entirely different.
Created by Ian on 07.18.2008 6:53 am
> Quit the day job
Define "hobbyist". I've been coding professionally since 1986 on products going to B2B in the 20K to 90K range. I chose this 30 Day approach to break the cycle of never moving forward. You need to be careful with generalizations. They have a habit of biting you on the ass.
@Ian.
Not a bad "publicity stunt". Part of my intent, and already paying of through links in the relevant places. I've not released, but I have more than a prototype - I have a release candidate. It won't go out until I'm happy it runs as intended. It's more complex than some others, possibly less complex than others again, but I think you miss the point of the exercise by a kilometer. It's not about creating an instant product, or an instant business or anything like that. It's about focus. Solo mISV's don't have the network of people around them 9-5 that a larger shop has. Focus can be tough. In addition, don't think months of coding, testing, analysis, market research and all the other essential stuff hasn't taken place just because it hasn't been mentioned. Not to mention extensive domain knowledge acrued from decades working in the audio field - albeit part time, but all the same with past and present accreditation. In fact I allude to these things several times on my blog. My goal was to create a foundation. For us geeks code is the foundation of our product. Like a house, everything else stands on it, else the whole lot crumbles. Marketing is paint, if you like, after the house is built. It keeps the weather out, makes you noticed and gets you "out there" and without it the house withers and dies, but until you've got the house standing on a foundation you have nothing to "paint". That doesn't mean I haven't chosen the color, compared swatches, examined the credentials of painters, or avoided having a "plan of action" or even booked the tradesmen to "do the job".
Created by Scott Kane on 07.18.2008 7:18 am
I certainly understand the process as well as any (perhaps better than most), I don't agree that 30 day sprints are the way to achieve focus. Saying it's going to be 30 days is just denial and setting yourself up for failure as on day 31 -> 10000 you need the same focus or more to be successful.
Example, this link I found off your blog roll: http://altawebworks.com/blog/?p=6
In 30 days it appears she planned to start this software, learn PHP, learn javascript and build a desktop component that connects to the server side. I haven't read all her posts, but even this surface look shows that such an undertaking is foolish in a 30 day limit.
Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that so many people want to start their own companies. I'm proof of how great an experience it can be, but that's why I get frustrated with the get rich quick method of doing it that so many seem to want to do. I want as many people as possible to succeed at it and when I see an approach which I think lowers the odds of success it bothers me.
Created by Ian on 07.18.2008 8:23 am
Ian, I think you're generalizing. The problem with that is that what does not work for you (or some others) may indeed work well for the other guy. The words "get rich quick" concern me in the context of this. I don't believe in "get rich quick". In fact I'm incredibly antagonistic and argumentitive against folks who push such schemes. I'm not prepared to go into specifics on folks who did not make any or a lot of progress in the June push. There are many reasons for that in the case you site, I know for a fact it has nothing to do with the reasons you use. Indeed nothing could be further from the truth.
Sure, I'm yet to release. But as I've said, that to me is a virtue in this instance. Not a failure. I have something tangible. It's not the end of the story, indeed it's merely a rough scratch at the beginning. I admit in my own blog that I was aiming high. I doubted my own capacity to deliver on Day 30. I was not disapointed in that prediction. However. While it may not focus you it focussed me. It worked beautifully for me in terms of getting together something that could then be stepped back from a polished. While my blogging effort has been reduced since July 1st my polishing has been intense. I've been extremely busy with it. I would not recommend everybody try this cycle. It's pretty tough, it's got negative aspects to it in terms of accomplishment if you expect the kind of results you imply, but I at no stage did. BTW - unlike you I think it's horrible "so many people want to start their own companies". My reasoning is that few are suited to accomplishing it.
I guess, at least in my case, time will tell.
Created by Scott Kane on 07.18.2008 8:34 am
Ah, see I think most can accomplish it with proper planning. It's not that hard to replace your salary with an application these days if you do the things your supposed to do and need to do. I don't think that's possible for most people in 30 days and hence why I think it's a bad idea. It might be OK for you, but I'd suggest you're the exception not the rule. In which case those folks would be better off planning and executing than rushing to learn 3 languages and do marketing and write code and setup their ecommerce solution all in 30 days.
I wish you luck though, hopefully it works out!
Created by Ian on 07.18.2008 10:45 am
The one thing I'm noticing, and not just here but on the blogosphere in general, about this 30-day challenge. The people pushing for it, that it can be done, that it's absolutely possible, generally don't have an existing business. And if they have an ISV, it's an mISV making at most $1-2k/month with no growth.
Basically they're starting a new business and have never had ran an ISV making at least $5000/month or more (I was going to say $10k/month, but I went with a lower number as some people only need this much to survive).
The others, those like Ian, myself, and several others, who've been in the business for years, don't agree.
Hmmmm... Makes you think doesn't it... It's not as easy as it's made out to be. It's not incredibly hard, but don't kid yourself, it will take a lot of hard work and time.
My bet is that within 6 months 90-95% of the people doing the 30-day challenge will have stopped working on their ISV. And less than 1% will have made $5000+/month (there's always at least a few exceptions to every rule).
The good news is that we can confirm this debate within at least 6-12 months. And I think that within even just a few months we'll already be getting a very clear picture
I absolutely hope I'm completely wrong in every way, but I fear I'm right. Here's to hoping I'm completely wrong
Created by Stephane Grenier on 07.18.2008 11:22 am
@Stephane
Love your e-book BTW. Haven't had a chance to read right through.
I have run an "mISV" before. I exited due to ill health, not ill sales or the usual reasons. That's no guarantee I can do it again, not does it qualify me to declare myself "expert" status. But I do know what I've done that did work and what I've done that failed. I did a lot of things that "failed". One thing that is different is that the world has turned since the late 90's when I was doing this last (before ill health). It was a different online world. Different customers, easier to access vertical markets, most were more technical (and literate in the basics of language too) and a bunch of other stuff. I don't think a full blown, fully implemented product of significance (complexity being relative I suppose) can be whacked together in 30 Days. I don't think a marketing campaign magically unfolds. All I'm advocating is that this technique provides a starting point. At no time do I, or would I, advocate taking any old idea and running with it without sufficient preparation. I didn't come down in the last shower...
@Ian.
Proper planning yes. But surely that's a skill set that not everybody is capable of maintaining. Planning is iterative, it doesn't stop at the "end of the page" so to speak. Secondly, way to many folks fail to follow their "plan" or even make an attempt to at least evolve it to suit the conditions they encounter (as we all need to do). They either keep flogging a dead horse, or walk away.
Created by Scott Kane on 07.18.2008 12:19 pm
@Scott
Thanks! It's great to hear you're getting a lot of value from it. When you're done, maybe I can interest you in giving me a testimonial Plus I always make sure to link to the person giving the testimonial.
In regards to your comment, I suspect you're going to be one of the few exceptions! You've had a mISV before. You have a good idea of what's involved. You don't expect the code to be your final product.
Btw, I caught your blog post about the yahoo site advisor the other day. Good catch! If you haven't read it yet, check it out at: http://www.davidscottkane.com/2008/07/07/day-37-rc1-ready-to-begin-website/
I checked out LandlordMax and we've also got the same issue, at least the last time I checked. I suspect pretty much every ISV will get hit with this. And there's nothing you can do, many of the download sites just parse the others and on and on they go...
Created by Stephane Grenier on 07.18.2008 2:55 pm
@Steph
Fully intend to do an article on the blog.
With regard to "final code/product", to right on that expectation, though I do suspect spending more years than I care to mention as a project analyst, various positions from code monkey to management kind of hammers it into you.
With Yahoo and SiteAdvisor, yeah. It pains me this can happen to any one of us. This is not healthy behaviour for companies to indulge in, down right scary in fact. Imgagine the fallout if MS did this? Not that I think for a minute they'd dare to do so.
Created by Scott Kane on 07.18.2008 11:44 pm
@Scott
That's great news!!! And I look forward to reading it.
Btw, I hope you don't mind, but when we get a support question about this issue we generally point people to your article to explain what's going on. It really helps make our claim more credible when someone else is describing the issue
And if I may suggest, as we're sending some traffic to your site, you may want to consider "fixing" the screenshot. It doesn't scale so nicely in the browser. Who knows, you may pick up some extra readers to your blog from the traffic we're sending so it's probably worth it
@Ian
Sorry for having this discussion on your post, we'll move it offline if it continues. It's not really related, it just happened to be a good venue.
@Scott (again)
Please feel free to contact me directly by email.
Created by Stephane Grenier on 07.19.2008 6:03 pm
About year ago we made an experiment to see how shareware sells.
We pick up an idea and made an implementation in a month. (http://findandmount.com) Then we've done very basic marketing (like submitting to shareware sites and so on.).
Now the income it produces would allow someone to leave their full time job, but still wouldn't allow to make big bucks.
So, I think the longer it takes to make an implementation the more risk you have to leave it halfway.
Created by Fedir Nepyivoda on 07.30.2008 6:57 am